I woke up this morning to a bit of a surprise. As I usually do, I checked the trackbacks and pings to Daily Cup of Tech. In the comments, I found a comment “Logo contests are spec work… ” from Consumer Thoughts. I wondered what this was all about so I went over to the website to see what was up.

I was a bit shocked to read the following in the very first paragraph:

I usually like Daily Cup of Tech, but Tim, the blogger, is having a logo contest, and didn’t seem interested in publishing my comment with a link to No-Spec.

My first reaction was “Huh?! I don’t recall seeing any comment about No-Spec!” I assumed that the comment got caught in he spam filter.

I read a bit of her blog post which, I think (it’s hard to tell with all the open and close quotes), pulls a large portion of its content from a website called No-Spec and specifically an article called Design Contests.

The blog author also followed up her post with an e-mail to me. Here is that e-mail exactly as I received it:

Dear Tim,

I see that you are encouraging speculative work through a “design a logo contest.”

Are you aware how damaging these types of contests are to the graphic design industry?

I highly recommend contacting International Council of Graphic Design Associations, AIGA, GAG, Society of Graphic Designers of Canada or any other professional graphic design association/organization about what is acceptable for a design contest. Your contest as it is now is considered a spec contest (working on the speculation of getting a return).

Ask yourself, would you offer a spec contest for legal advice, tax services, computer services, building repair, or any other professional service? No, you wouldn’t. Because their time has value. The same as ours.

Please consider a different route to promote Daily Cup of Tech, one that everyone can be supporting of.

Regards,

Kathryn

So, Kathryn brings up a number of points and asks some direct questions. I would like to take this opportunity to respond to these.

“Are you aware how damaging these types of contests are to the graphic design industry?”

The short answer is no. I may be ignorant or naive, but I was completely 100% unaware that there was a huge issue around this. In fact, I didn’t even know what “spec” work was until I went to the the No-Spec website:

“Spec” has become the short form for any work done on a speculative basis. In other words, any requested work for which a fair and reasonable fee has not been agreed upon, preferably in writing.

Apparently, it seems that there are a lot of companies that are getting work done for free by graphic artists by holding a contest. A prime example of this is would be the logo design for the 2010 Olympics.

This is all news to me.

“Your contest as it is now is considered a spec contest”

I guess I should rectify that issue right now.

If you are currently putting in time and effort designing a logo for the Daily Cup of Tech logo contest in the hopes that you will receive some type of money or work from Daily Cup of Tech at a later date, then stop working on the art immediately! Do not perform any more work on the speculation that you will receive some form of compensation.

If you are working on a logo for the contest because you think it is a fun contest, you don’t really care about the prizes, and you think this is a good way to help out Daily Cup of Tech then by all means, keep working and submit your logo!

Now, I’m not even certain that this could be considered a spec contest because it has a lot of things in common with a contest that the International Council of Graphic Design Associations (mentioned in the letter) was supporting. One Good Idea asked:

companies to share their good idea with us. Your good idea can be a product or service (even one that currently exists) that reminds people that even small steps can contribute to massive change. We’re putting our money where our mouth is and are offering $ 25,000 in strategy and creative services to the idea with the most merit.

In order to apply for this contest, you needed to provide:

• Corporate background, including: year of incorporation, corporate overview and management structure, number of staff.
• One Good Idea™ proposal – tell us your pitch and why your One Good Idea™ is the best, most interesting and most sustainable idea that simply must get out there.
• Implementation plan – give us an idea on how you would implement the idea and what you would look to Ion Design to produce using the prize value.
• An explanation of how you would provide recognition for Ion Design.
• And, finally, a single sentence that summarises your pitch.
• Proposals should not exceed ten (10) typeset pages. Submissions will be accepted only via email and formatted only as a PDF.

So, to enter this contest, I need to come up with a creative idea, write up a proposal, plan out its execution and then give the prize money back to the sponsoring company so that they can implement it! Not only does that sound like spec work, it is cheating the winners out of their prize money because the company can change the winners full cost but the actual cost to the design company is before markup! So the $25,000 prize may only cost the “sponsor” $12,000!

I do not think that any organization that can support a contest like this could have anything against my little contest!

“Ask yourself, would you offer a spec contest for legal advice, tax services, computer services, building repair, or any other professional service? No, you wouldn’t. Because their time has value. The same as ours.“

I can’t talk to the other professions because I am computer services but in this industry, this happens all the time. It’s called a request for proposal!

In the same vein, people do not hesitate to ask for advice or favours from computer people. You would not imagine how many times I get asked at work to help someone to fix their home computer. In fact, it is presently an issue that has gotten to management. But this is considered acceptable.

The Bottom Line

In my mind, this all comes back to expectations. I do not expect people to do something that they don’t want to do. If they are spending time working on this logo contest when they could be doing other things that are more important, then they should not work on the logo. Are they counting on the gift certificate, t-shirt, and coffee mug to help feed and provide for their family? Then they should probably refocus their efforts.

I am not some large company that is trying to get something for nothing so that I can keep the money for meals in my private jet. Rather, I am a little blogger who is trying to create a community.

In a community, there is give and take. I do not think there is any question who does most of the giving in the Daily Cup of Tech community. If someone wants to give something to me out of appreciation for what I have done, I will accept it. This includes donations, post ideas, and, yes, entries to the logo contest.

Your Say

But, this is all my opinion. I want to hear from you:

{democracy:12}

Got more to say? Put it in the comments!

If you found this post useful, why don't you buy me a cup of coffee to show your gratitude?

Trackback link - http://www.dailycupoftech.com/2007/08/10/dcot-blogger-or-art-thief/trackback/

 

39 Responses to “DCoT: Blogger or Art Thief?”

1. Internet Security Blogs Says:
   November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

   Have Your Lost USB Drive Ask For Help, USB Drive AutoRun.inf Tweaking, and DCoT Helps Find Lost Child. Anyway…Tim had started a contest to create a new DCoT logo. Seems easy enough. Except he seemed to have attracted some strong comments from a reader who felt that these logo-design contests were “damaging” to the graphic design industry. RE: No-Spec, and Design Contests So back and forth they dialoged. In the end, it seems a “no-harm/no-foul” was called, but the discussion was

2. co.mments - Recently added conversations Says:
   November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

   DCoT: Blogger or Art Thief? Trackback or E-Mail This Post Categories: Contest, Blog, Poll, From the Files of DCOT… Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 by Tim Fehlman Thanks for visiting Daily Cup of Tech! Here are a few things that you may want to do while you are visiting:

3. ShanKri-la - a blog where technology meets daily life. Says:
   November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

   An interesting read on how Kumiko compares the life of probloggers with that of coal miners and makes a point [IMG] that they should stop whining about their job. Interesting pictures too. Meet Miner Mike. DCOT: Blogger or Art Thief? - Tim at Daily Cup of Tech Tim is running a logo contest for DCOT. I learnt quite a bit from his encounter with difference in a no-spec and spec contests. Read on if you are interested in hosting design contests.

4. The Logo Factor - Design Blog Says:
   November 30th, 1999 at 12:00 am

   or a few bucks to the winner. These types of contests are generally fun for all, and represent a chance for would-be designers to get involved in their favorite acre of cyberspace. While many graphic design purists may disagree with me here (some quite vocal in their opposition), I really don’t see any harm in this - to the folks holding the contest, the folks entering their designs or the graphic design industry in general. People who submit their logo concepts are doing so for the

5. Jared Says:
   August 10th, 2007 at 3:02 pm

   Interesting notes. However, in this specific case I don’t agree with them.

   I can completely understand where they’re coming from, though. As an amateur photographer, I know full well that many pro photographers can get bit by online gallery sites. More and more, prospective clients are going to these sites to search for low cost or even free photographs to professionally use. They simply contact the users and ask for permission to use an image. Most amateur photographers jump at the chance for publicity and future relations, so they often end up giving pictures away for very cheap or even free. This results in lower demand for professional photographs, and can make the life of a pro photographer just a little more difficult. The principal with graphics design is essentially the same - pro and amateur.

   However, this site’s contest is more about giving its readers and community an avenue to directly support something they enjoy and to do so out of their good motive. It’s simply not about DCoT looking for a way to get a free ‘pro quality’ graphic.

   It seems to me that while this organization could definitely be useful for trying to encourage professional operations within professional environments, they really should lighten up on “the little guy” and not cross the line of simple community support.

   Just my $.02.

6. Joe Says:
   August 10th, 2007 at 3:11 pm

   I had a little inkling of a wonder about this myself - “He’s getting graphic design work pretty cheaply by holding this contest”.

   However, this response to the issues that were raised seems just about right. Bravo.

7. Christopher Sisk Says:
   August 10th, 2007 at 3:25 pm

   As a professional designer, who entered the DCoT Logo contest, I can understand the points made by “No-Spec” - However, I feel that they fail to understand internet or the financial situations of many of today’s web-users. Many simply can’t afford the cost of my professional services to work through various incarnations and zero-in on a re-branding design. The process can become lengthy and costly.

   The ability for amateur journalists working part-time on a website to ask the public for support in the graphic design department is exactly the kind of open-structure the web is best used for. As a professional, I realize its MY JOB to step up to the plate, through advertising and quality work, to make my presence known.

   Just as many amateur podcasters are realizing, there’s a lot of quality music coming from the independent musicians that can be used for free or commissioned for very low prices, others are seeing the benefit of open, public support in a variety of industries. Should the professional musicians of the world band together and claim that independent music is damaging to the music industry? No, its competition: inside and outside the industry. Same goes for the design industry as well as all others.

8. Beer Meister Says:
   August 10th, 2007 at 3:30 pm

   Tim,

   I’m laughing. No, I wouldn’t spec work to doctors, lawyers, or any other professional service provider. One big difference between spec’ing for those services, and art for your blog, is that you are asking for original submissions and you can actually see the end result of the artists’ work before selection, amateur or professional. Contracting with a “professional” doesn’t always guarantee the work you are getting is performed correctly or better than an amateur’s attempt.

   Please, Tim, disregard her email, poor analogies, criticisms, and inaccurate accusations. While I didn’t read the details of your request (I can barely type emotes correctly,) I never thought you were offering a reward, other than maybe name recognition, for your logo “contest.” I don’t think anyone else did, either.

   I like all of the art work submitted so far. I sure hope by selecting one of these excellent submissions that you aren’t putting Kathryn, or any of her professional associates, out of work. Along those lines, I mowed my neighbor’s lawn this morning as a favor and without being asked. I sure hope I didn’t cripple the local lawn-maintenance industry by doing so.

   Perhaps Kathryn should focus more on her own professional submissions and leave bloggers like you alone.

9. Jonathan Rothwell Says:
   August 10th, 2007 at 3:38 pm

   What Kathryn seems not to realise is that DCoT is not a multi-national corporation that can afford to spend thousands on branding agencies. And when they come up with things as monstrous as this, it’s no wonder that running a contest (so you can actually choose before you pay) or designing in-house is such an attractive option.

10. Brandon Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 4:14 pm

    I see nothing wrong with holding an art contest like this. And if professional designers have a problem with it, they can easily fix it by not submitting their work to contests. Then small journalists such as Tim would still have a source of free amateur content, and graphic designers would still be able to sell their services to those that could afford it.

    Of course if professional designers dont have a problem with it they can do whatever they like.

11. Chris Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 4:27 pm

    As you said, if people are planning on feeding their family with a GC and a coffee cup they may need to refocus their efforts.

    Besides, logo design is a gimme, it’s the design equivalent of the $10 oil change, you give it away to hold the art and get the rest of their design work.

    And for what you’ve given us for free in entertainment already, I think you’ve been more than fair.

12. Rich Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 4:30 pm

    I work in a print shop and many of these “professional designers” can’t even get their files right to print. Maybe they should be upset when someone takes an easy web logo and tries to make a contest of it.

13. John May Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 4:39 pm

    Now you did it Tim! Forget murder, rape, or kidnapping, you committed the ultimate crime, you created a contest, FOR YOUR WEBSITE! Oh the humanity!

    Looks like she has a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

14. Tom Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 5:01 pm

    I side with Tim’s counter-points as well. Speaking as an artist and amateur photographer, as well as another IT pro who has often contemplated keeping his technical skills under a shroud of secrecy just to escape all the computer questions, I think that this is a well-intentioned, good-natured contest that engages the community around the site. Given the original wording of the contest description, no reasonable person could have concluded that they would receive anything in return for their entry at any point in the future. Finally, I would have entered myself if I had more free time.

15. Kat Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    I never said it was stealing. You are asking graphic designers to work for free. Please go to No-Spec and read - did you know that your website could benefit from hiring a graphic designer? They will work with you and ensure professional design… contests often draw amateurs only.

    I never once accused anyone here of stealing or being a thief. Most people are not aware of spec work, and I am simply bringing it to your attention. Comparing this issue to rape or murder, as one commenter did, is blowing it way out of proportion, in a way I never intended to do.

    If you think logo design is expensive, I know of a website where you can get a new logo for $25. (No, it’s not my own website, nor a friend’s - I have nothing to do with them.)

16. Jonathan Rothwell Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    If you think logo design is expensive, I know of a website where you can get a new logo for $25. (No, it’s not my own website, nor a friend’s - I have nothing to do with them.)

    But why bother when you can get something equally as good, professional and a lot more cordially for free?

    did you know that your website could benefit from hiring a graphic designer? They will work with you and ensure professional design… contests often draw amateurs only.

    I take issue with this strongly. ‘Amateur’ does not necessarily equal poor quality. I myself browse a broadcast design forum, where both trained professionals and amateurs from the ages of around 12 post their designs. Some are rubbish, but others (the majority) are utterly stunning.

    Some of the entries in this contest have been magnificent, and while I in no way mean this as an insult to graphic designers, you seem to be using the sort of words that a salesman would use when trying to ‘educate’ people about how his product is better than his competitor’s. In short, I believe this to be a FUD.

17. Skip Adkins Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    There is no rule that we have to support a corporate model.
    This has been part of the internet from day one. I can still remember doing free art work for some researchers at NASA/Langley who didn’t have the funding to get the illustrations done for their paper, so they asked me to do it. It was always about getting some help when you’re the little guy and can’t afford to get something done professionally.
    There is a whole world of difference of expectations from the pro doing it for a living and an amateur doing it to help out.
    I don’t expect my neighbor to have the same skills as a professional carpenter when he helps me put up my fence. But I also don’t expect a professional to work for nothing.

18. Nate Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Think about how stupid the average person is. Now realize that half the population is stupider than that.

    I like how Kat didn’t address your points about doing IT work for free. As an IT consultant, I know exactly what Tim is talking about here. Most of the time I don’t mind, but some people do try and abuse the favor.

    There are thousands of people that work for free and then put their creations online for people to take at will, it’s called the open-source community. It’s Linux, Firefox, NoScript, TrueCrypt, OpenOffice.org, AutoIT- the list goes on and on. Open-source and sharing is one of the greatest benefits of the internet in general, and Tim is giving us readers plenty for free.

    Tim, keep doing what you’re doing, and don’t let the trolls get you down.

    Thanks.

19. Tom Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    Skip Adkins hits on a good point. If I knew a handyman, I would ask him to help me fix my wall so that I do not have to hire a contractor. If I knew a green thumb, I would ask him to help me sod my yard so that I did not have to hire a gardener.

    I’m helping a friend move next weekend. He got a bunch of the guys together so that he would not have to hire movers.

    I am a database manager. Someone asks me to fix their computer or answer a question every other weekend so that they do not have to hire a consultant. Most of the time I don’t mind. I’m happy to spend five minutes installing a piece of software for a friend when a third party would charge them $28.99 for the trouble.

    Conversely if I were a company with resources, conducting professional business which demands a level of professionalism, insurance and accountability, I would hire contractors, gardeners, movers, IT consultants, and graphic designers.

20. Richard in Kunming Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    I firmly believe this is exactly what a blog like DCoT should be doing! What is one of the main strengths of this blog? Interaction. Community. What sort of society are we when people are criticized for freely giving of their time and skill to benefit another?

21. Tim Fehlman Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 7:49 pm

    @Kat

    No, you never came right out and said I was stealing but in the end, you stated that I was getting something without paying for it. To me that is stealing. But, I do not want this to be a matter of semantics. Either way, you believe I am behaving immorally.

    As for logo design being expensive, I thought about using one of those $25 logo sites. It would have been far cheaper (I’m giving a $50 gift card, a custom mug, and a custom T-shirt) and far less effort (the contest is taking up two weeks of my life).

    But, I decided against it for a couple of reasons:

    1) Just hiring an unknown person for $25 to make me a logo does not support the DCoT community
    2) It does not encourage new or unknown talent
    3) I find that you can often get better results when someone has feeling or passion for a subject and I feel that the DCoT readers has this about DCoT

    Tim

22. Joe R Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    What d bags. Come on, they should not make everything so legal and aggressive. These type of people (Kathryn) mess up contests and stop the fun. This Kathryn is a party pooper. Shes the person who stops opportunities from happening. Sorry for the real downer comment.
    BTW I LOVE YOUR BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep up the great work!!!!

23. Tim Fehlman Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    I just received an e-mail from Kathryn. She just wanted to let me know that she was sorry for all of the ruckus that this has caused. She did not meant to come across as so accusatory and just wanted to bring No-Spec to my attention.

    I think Kathryn’s intentions were honorable and she just let her passion lead her down the garden path.

    Tim

24. mykl_lee Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    Kat “You are asking graphic designers to work for free.”

    Where in the contest rules did it say that you had to be a graphic designer?? And who said we were doing this for free?? Other than a snazzy coffee mug and t-shirt and gift card how about a little pride that you were able to be a part of something. I wouldn’t mind having a little DCoT bling-bling to show off at work.

25. Tony Myers Says:
    August 10th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    If you stop to think about the logic that the writer, Kat is using .. then you have to realize that “ALL FORMS” of work (of any kind) is “speculative” work.

    Think about it logically. No one “guarantees” that you will get paid for your work. Even in corporate America (actually, probably even WORSE in corporate America), you perform hours upon hours of work with the expectation that you will receive a paycheck at the end of your pay period.

    Now what happens when that person or business decides NOT to pay you for all of the work done? What if the business closes down and refuses to pay it’s employees?

    What about all of the retirees that have worked all their lives only to be told by the courts that because their former employer has been granted bankruptcy, they no longer have their pensions or benefits to rely on.

    Wasn’t this ALL, speculative work?

    Everything we do in our lives, is speculative. It’s called, living. And enjoying ourselves by giving (if we so choose, for free) of ourselves by entering contests.

    Just my 2 cents worth!

26. Hypercubed Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 12:01 am

    The basic argument here is that getting free logo development devalues the graphic development market even if the free graphic development is offered without the expectation of a contract.

    I guess software developers should boycott free software (bye-bye Firefox). Web developers should crack down on personal homepages by making sure that HTML is only possible with a proprietary code (hello Adobe). Oh, and giving out free food on Skid row is hurting the restaurant business.

27. JC Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 4:50 am

    Well… from a general perspective, I don’t see anything wrong in this contest, really…
    As Tim said, it happens all the time in the IT industry where people offer help on forums, newsgroups, through blogs, or in real life, for free.
    Open-Source programs are free as well (consultancy of these open-source programs is another matter).

    I wouldn’t be surprised that there would be some graphic designers reading this popular blog and wanting to help and thank for the blog in such a way. As I said in another polemic about this blog, you can help in many other ways than through donations…

    Of course, many of the entries are not what you can expect from professional designers because the regular reader wants to give it a try… Of course it results in a wide range of quality in the logos suggested so far, but I think that Entry #12 is definitely professional-grade and some others are also quite close to it.

    Now, if a logo costs only $25 (I thought it was much more expensive, but it may be the graphical designers’ industry’s fault to not communicate more about the fact they are cheap : I thought such logo designs costed at least 10 times more, probably because it was that expensive 5 or ten years ago) and that you can really ask the designers exactly what you have in mind and they can come up with something really matching your exact needs and you can even ask them to go back to the drawing board if it does not (of course for $25 I guess you can’t expect to do that too many times).

    It would even be cheaper than the $50 amazon coupon + t-shirt + mug that is the prize for the contest winner, but making the readers participate is a big thing for a blog since it makes it alive and interactive.

    After all, maybe the graphic-design industry spawned way too many graphical designers in the “everybody needs a website asap”-days and that now some are starving and angry… and I can somewhat understand that they are not necessaraly happy to see readers with some photoshop skills give good logos for free or for prices to a website popular enough to buy his own logo.
    After all, if everybody does this, it is true that they may not have business for too long.

    In some way, you can say the same about the technical help forums in the Internet : many “computer-illeterate” people manage to fix their computer through help on various forums on the Internet, which probably reduces the turnover of some computer repairs shops and companies out there that they would have ended up calling if not for these free support forums… but some of these techies also help on these same forums for free, so I think it is quite the same for the both industries after all, on that matter, at least.

    On a more or less related note, it is true that the Internet is somewhat disturbing when it is about money : you can casually do “business” on the Internet in many ways that would be not tolerated in the real world : for example, many eBay sellers/buyers do not pay taxes or VAT on what they are selling or buying and do not include this in their taxes higher (while a conventional shop definitely would do).
    In some countries, paying people through goods can probably be referred as “dissimulated work” and after all, even if the the person getting the goodie/prize gets a compensation, social taxes and such never get paid, why they would through a professional designer, who pays his employees but also all the related taxes to running a business and hiring people.

    The same can be said about your part job, Tim : you will leave your part job if you get enough donations, but where will the taxes, that used to go to your country when you worked for a company, go, now that you will get paid through PayPal, without any form of work-contract or “pay bulletin” (whatever it is called in english, sorry) ?

    Of course, at the level of a blog, it is somewhat negligible, but things like eBay, RentACoder, and other websites where you get paid through PayPal or ads-service and not have any kind of invoice or work contract is definitely becoming an increasing problems for several countries since they look like a kind of parallel economy to me.

    JC.

28. Tim Fehlman Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 5:53 am

    @JC

    In regards to me quitting my one day a week job and blogging that day if I were able to make enough off the blog to cover the financial loss.

    Where I live, people need to pay taxes on all income that they make, regardless of source. I have to claim all money that I generate from the blog on my tax forms and I pay the tax at that point.

    But, I am assuming that you are referring to the fact that I will be able to get away without paying taxes because there is no check to ensure that I report this money on my tax form. Essentially, if I decide to not behave ethically, I could get away without paying taxes.

    Tim

29. JC Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 7:05 am

    It is the same here and I understand what you mean.
    Actually, what I was meaning if that there is no VAT and social taxes on the work you are doing here.

    Of course, you still have to pay “Taxes on the Revenues” for all your personal incomes, but in the end, that way makes it less taxes for your country, which, for some of them are sometimes paid by the employer himself, or the most obvious tax on whatever thing you buy (be it good or service) is VAT which is never paid when you get a donation (which is for your work and time, hence, it can be considered as a service : in my country and probably lots of other as well, you have to create a certain legal type of association to be able to receive donations legally) or when you will give the prize for the logo.

    In my country, paying a logo with a prize can be considered as “dissumulated work” : even if it is a contest, there are again some strict conditions for a contest to be considered “legal”, but thankfully there is some freedom on our countries and the tax authorities won’t make a big mess for that… I agree it would be very heavy if a blog couldn’t set up a little contest like this one.

    Actually, the bigger problem is sites like eBay, where, for example, VAT and other taxes are totally forgotten. RentACoder is as well : any company has to pay for company taxes, office taxes, VAT, etc, but in the end, the people working through those sites only pay the “Personal Revenue Tax”, which is getting away with a lot of other taxes that normal companies has to pay, and even themselves as individuals like the social security taxes.

    It may seem a bit off-topic, but I guess it is also something that these graphic designers also have to deal with (but not only them) and may also be a reason why some of them are angry : nowadays, you can get a professional graphic designer to work on your logo for a ridiculous sum of money, because, as an individual, he thinks he can legally get away with many taxes, and the professional companies have much more company-related and employee-related taxes to pay : not sure the competition is fair here… (the turnover tax is already 33% in my country, and that’s just the beginning of a long list : with those, hard for a small or medium design company to align on the prices made by a more or less legal freelancer individual)

    In many countries, an individual has to have a work contract (including for services like home nurse, home cleaners or babysitters) or be a company to be able to carry out some work legally, but far too often, it just ends up with including these incomes into the personal tax declaration, at best…

    So, my point is rather to show how the Internet is becoming a parallel economy for an increasing number of people.
    I heard on the radio the other day that several millions of people now solely live on their revenues from eBay, but as I said, they get away with a lot of taxes that the competition has to pay, and I don’t think that, in this case, it is really fair, and in the end, on a medium/large scale, it hurts a country economy a lot more than people may think at first, first because these people do not pay the taxes they are supposed to, and that because of that, they can immediatly cut prices way quite below the competition, which in turn hurts many companies.

30. cat Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Tim,

    As you mentioned, you have just come across www.no-spec.com for the first time.

    Please note: NO!SPEC was created to educate designers and clients about the escalating abuses in regards to working on spec.

    It was not created as a vehicle to go after fun design projects. It was not created as a vehicle against pro bono or open source.

    Bottom line as we see it, designers need to make an educated choice. Whatever it is. –>> http://www.no-spec.com/archives/speakup/

    cat

31. Rob O. Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am

    Tim, you thieving rat b@stard! Given that you did indeed hold a gun to my head until I designed & submitted a logo idea, well yeah, this contest is clearly just plain wrong.

    No, no, just kidding!!

    I really enjoy dabbling with digital graphics stuff and this gave me a challenging excuse to do so.

32. Josh Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pm

    Christopher Sisk nails this issue on the head. The internet has changed the rules, and though it’s not clear how things will shake down it is time to start getting creative and figuring out what it’s going to look like tomorrow, not yesterday.

    As for ethics and morality: we’re all fully informed consenting adults. It’s a question of supply and demand–trying to interfere with that process by appealing to people’s sense of outrage may work in the short term but isn’t sustainable.

    And finally, open source software developers have been giving away code for free for a long time (even to big companies like IBM and Sun) and I haven’t heard a credible argument that it has devalued the profession. Would all of us programmers be making $2 million a year if it weren’t for Linus?

33. Beer Meister Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    I am tired of reading about this already. I wouldn’t go to the no-spec site now if you paid me. Really. I wouldn’t. When Microsoft, GE, Best Buy or Ford MoCo start spec’ing their graphic work, then these fanatics can get their bowels in an uproar. What’s their next agenda? Children’s lemonade stands? They should make quite the impact.

34. Simon Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 2:17 pm

    I completely disagree with the view that this is “stealing” from graphic designers.
    i am a training graphic designer, and though i am not entering the competition, if i had more time, i would love the opportunity to get some work recognized and to practice my skills, while also maybe picking up some constructive criticism.
    this is only stealing business in the same way that governments and other large organizations offer companies to make offers for work.
    another way of looking at it is that if you hired a graphic designer you would have to pay a fee, and therefore further your costs of running this brilliant, and informative site.
    this also gives people a chance to show off their talent and creativity.

    i hope this competition continues and so does your great site, and work

    Simon.

35. Kevin Devin Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

    Tim,

    It’s clear, you’re not sweating this, as I wouldn’t either. I did the same exact thing for the podcast. It’s a great way for the community to give back to content producers and be involved.

    Keep marching onward, it’s your site and there are no rules as to how you run it.

    -KHD

36. TechShep Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    I am understanding that the problem is that Kat feels that hiring a pro is best for the pro designing industry

    In the real world, if you are paid to do something, you are, by definition, a professional

    Just for the records, if Tim decides to indeed give the winner the amazon gift card, the winner, by definition, would then be considered a professional designer

    As a webmaster, amateur designer, and DCoT subscriber, I believe Tim has a right to do whatever he decides in this contest.

    -TechShep

37. QuitYerBitchin Says:
    August 12th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    Seems to me that the commenter was simply trying to drum up some publicity for their own work…

38. Andrew Says:
    August 13th, 2007 at 8:42 am

    Just my opinion, but I think that’s just about the most ludicrous thing I’ve ever heard. It’s not like you are even making is a HUGE content. If you were offering $100,000.00 cash reward or something…ok, I can see where that would get a little sticky. But COME ON! Some people just weren’t born with an adequate dose of common sense!

    - Andrew

39. dlab Says:
    August 31st, 2007 at 2:28 pm

    Kat is just using you to gain publicity for her no-spec website. While they do have some good points, their arguments are diluted by the fact that there are graphic designers out there that DO do spec work and who DO manage to make a nice living. I know a couple personally.

    Sounds to me like Kat is just a mediocre graphic designer who can’t get any work.

    Can’t believe she had the gall to diss your blog layout…

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